"friday five" ... YOU have the answers for everything !

on Jul 30, 2004

Can you imagine the US/Iraq affairs right now if Clinton were in office. Scares me to think about it.

I'm really not sure what you mean by this Sarah. Clinton sent our troops to quite a few places, including Bosnia and Haiti. He also authorized additional troops for Somalia (a mission that began under George Bush). If you remember, Clinton also bombed Iraq. For some reason, people seem to think that Clinton stood on his hands and cried "woe is me" when faced with a challenge. This is clearly not the case. However, Clinton did use diplomacy to a far greater extent than this current administration (in my opinion)--Northern Ireland and the Middle East are two examples that stick out in my mind. Where would we be today if George Mitchell hadn't been removed from negotiating in Israel/Palestine? I guess we'll never know.

17

psychx

on Jul 30, 2004

These keep getting better and better. These are some key issues that you've hit on Mig. I'll try my best to articulate my opinion.

1. Woman's right to abortion: In my beliefs, every individual should have a right to choose what they want to do with their own life without the worry that some other individual who believes different will try to impose their beliefs on them. With that said I think women should have the right to choose what they want to do. It doesn't concern or affect me so who am I to tell them what to do? God has given us free will it is up to us to decide what we do with it. TRUE

2.War is always wrong regardless of the circumstances. Of course that doesn't mean that it's never necessary. World War II had to be fought but it didn't change the fact that many people where killed which makes it wrong.TRUE

3.If it's not working chances are it's not going to work. These individuals have a tendency to return to crime because it's pathological urges that compell them to do it. With some evaluation I'm sure we would be able to filter out some of those that can benefit from help. FALSE

4.Unfortunately not all that fall in love can maintain a stable relationship but all those that want to get married should have the right to do so.TRUE

5. Poor parenting plays a huge role in the development of a child which will impact a childs behavior in the future. Boys with no paternal influences have the hardest time adjusting and it may impact them in a drastically negative way. TRUE

18

Splateaux

on Jul 30, 2004

In my beliefs, every individual should have a right to choose what they want to do with their own life without the worry that some other individual who believes different will try to impose their beliefs on them.

This is almost the perfect example for the OTHER side of the argument. If you say the above statement, but think of the unborn child as the "individual", and think of the "some other individual" as the mother who is carrying the child.

19

Suspeckted

on Jul 30, 2004

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right

First off...I find it pretty intimidating to suggest I have any answers to these questions, but my two cents...sure you can have it....even though this isn't a pay day for me. Plain and simple, yes, it's a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, support the right to have an abortion, and their right to choose to speak out against abortion. That's what makes it a CHOICE. Expanding beyond the plain and simple explanation I also believe that aborting a fetus is "killing," but not a "murder." There is a very important difference between these. But I say this in order to get past the silly argument of whether something is "alive" or even what qualifies as personhood since these debates are highly theological and have little objective reasoning.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances

It would be very narrow minded to suggest that all wars were wrong. I would even argue that the Ghandi led resistance against the British was their way of waging war....the merits of such a war waged upon oppressive colonial dictators would be difficult to argue against. However, I would like to say that war is "wrong" in the moral sense if we are to judge humanity as a species. Once we break it down into A vs. B it gets a little bit more difficult to decide who is "holier than thou." I truly wonder where we'd be in this Iraq war if someone like Nader was president. Not necessarily saying that he'd do a better job, but I really wonder what might take place.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals

I'm pretty sure that the idea of serving prison time itself was never really meant to "rehabilitate" criminals, it was a "punishment." I find this question rather silly being a criminology/sociology major and knowing that there are infinite differences between offenders and also that very little has been shown to rehabilitate severe ciminal offenses. Prison is a way of confining behavior, not of correcting it. And now to get on my soapbox - drug laws are oppressive and a BIG WASTE OF MONEY! D.A.R.E. programs have been proven ineffective for 20 years yet they're still in place. The tougher we get on drugs the lighter we get on other crime because there is no space for more ciminals in the prison system...when one goes in, one must come out.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry

Yes, now let's move on people really. Call it something else if you must, but I remember a little thing that used to be called separation of church and state. You don't have to like it, feel free to hate, but GET OVER IT!

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime

Uhhh....that would certainly be an incomplete explanation.

20

Kayles

on Jul 30, 2004

I just wanted to let you know that I will be commenting next week. I'm up to ,y elbows in a project at work right now.

21

shadesofgrey

on Jul 30, 2004

The line of viability gets blurrier by the day, shades, a friend of mine recently gave birth to a baby girl weighing 2lbs 6oz. She is having problems, of course, but shes expected to live. How would you determine its viability, by its ability to survive without medical intervention? Just curious....

Agreed, and I've not really got an answer. I believe the law in most states says 20 weeks is the age of viability. It sound arbitrary, but I don't have a medical background so I really can't expound upon it any further. If I were forced to define viability, I would say the ability to survive outside the womb with no extraordinary acts of medicine. (But this definition leaves me in some uncomfortable murky waters as well).

22

mignuna

on Jul 30, 2004

hooray ! i LOVE this thing !. it's now 9.30am on a saturday morning, and i have just woken up to another amazing set of responses ... as soon as i read them all, i will be back ! (sounds ominous) !

mig XX

23

mignuna

on Jul 31, 2004

I'M BREAKING THIS COMMENT UP INTO A FEW POSTS. SORRY !. it's too monster and i think it'll be hard to read

True. If you don't agree with it, that's fine with me, but if I were pregnant now the life that I could offer a child would not be fair on them or me. I think we're all allow to make a mistake. I do NOT agree with people who use abortions as a form of contraception (for want of a better word)

agreed, suz

To use and oldie but a goodies as an example - what if no one has fought Hitler? (Even though they were a little late as it was)

good point. and they were. they were ! hehe

I imagine that you could rehabilitate a small number of them, but that would require and entire shakeup of the prison system so that the inmates learn how to be honest rather than simply refining their skills as crims.

true, suz. i have often heard that "softer" criminals come out with a better "education" so to speak

True. True, true, true, true, true.

agreed

I don't jump on the blame the parents bandwagon, but I do think that they have somehow allowed these crimes to be committed

it's very hard to draw the line, suz. i know

Oooh - provoking migs. I don't really like many of my answers but i tried to be as honest as possible. Sadly I am such a grey area person but I tried to pick one side or the other. Even doing that I have a tonne of qualifiers!

that's the kind of comment i like to hear, suz !. they hurt my head to think them up, too.

False. I am going out on a limb here, but there certainly are situations where the bloke has been tricked into inpregnating a woman - i.e. Lying about the pill etc

i see your point, muggy, and it is a good one. i asked this question in such a general way that i actually did exclude the males' rights (naughty me !).

War is a necessary evil due to the negative aspects of human nature

sad, but true

I want to see it...

me too, mugz. it is a bit of an impossible question, but thanks for your input anyway

True - I dont care... marraige is an archaic tradition anyway

funny mugz, that was almost one of the statements that i used this week. i read a headline very similar to that. great minds and all that ...

True - This was the easiest of the lot to answer... Environment is the most important aspect in character development

very definitive answer there, muggy. i can't wait to keep reading and see who agrees

just because I would never do it, does not mean I have the right to tell another woman what to do with her body.

well said, sal.

False. War is necessary is some cases. That is just the harsh reality of it. the way we go about war could be changed, but sometimes the world does have to be that brutal

sal, that is the answer all have given so far, and for much the same reasons. already a pattern starts ...

Come across bigger and badder versions of themselves, who teach them more than what they went in with.

agreed

I don't agree with all these people who marry at a drop of a hat, or who are just to young

good points sal. these should be standard "conditions"

I know alot of loving, caring parents whos children have gone down the wrong path

again, sad but true, sal

ok, tea break hehe !. THANKYOU EVERYONE SO MUCH !

happy (feeling much better) mig XXX

24

mignuna

on Jul 31, 2004

False, because pregnancy is a temporary condition. Other rights come into play once another life has been created, namely, those of the baby and the father.

sabrina, again i applaud your willingness to state your beliefs convincingly and without flinching. thankyou

And with adoption waiting lists approaching 5 or 6 years and costing thousands of dollars, seeing that the baby is raised by a loving family would not be difficult at all.

as a woman who'd love to adopt, this issue leaves me sorely divided, because i am still a woman after all

False, although mankind can rarely agree on the circumstances under which it is warranted.

i'd say this is the true summation of the issue, sabrina. thankyou for adding it.

False. One needs only to look at our recidivism rate to figure out it aint working. Do i have another solution? Nope

i don't think any of us have a better idea (or at least a feasible one). but we all seem agreed that prison can have more potential for harm than rehab

False, although i do feel that 2 legally consenting adults should be able to cohabitate and form legal contracts.

contracts in a way of a binding arrangement in lieu of marriage you mean, sabrina ?. i know that phychx and i briefy discussed such a thing a while ago, and i was i was hoping he might do a blog on the issue (hint, hint hehe)

True, since you said the "majority" of juvenile crime, not "all" juvenile crime

thankyou !. i hoped i didn't come across too heavy on that, but i just wrote it the way the news did and hoped for the best !

Yes, until the fetus is post-viability, and then no.

i agree with your adding of the fetus description here shades, i think it's very relevent. thanks for mentioning it.

War is not the best answer to many of the world's ills, though it is the last resort when diplomacy has failed

true, shades. i expected more contention on this issue (without necessarily wanting it), and i'm very surprised at the trend so far

Honestly, I don't have any idea what the best way to rehabilitate criminals is, but I would like them off the street while they are being rehabilitated.

big yes !

I agree--with Suz's exception duly noted.

as do i. (note that suz' exception - sounds like a legal clause now ! - being too young or marrying too easily or often, if anyone missed it)

Poor parenting is responsibile for a breakdown in values, trust and respect. These are the things that lead to crime...so yes.

another very valid point to add to this issue, shades. neglect (of any type) or setting a poor example can contribute to a warped value system in adolescents

False - While the mother is host for this newly created life, I don't think she should just be able to commit murder just because she's currently hosting this life.

splateaux, this issue has the friday five divided almost exactly into male and female. amazingly, this has never happened before. divisions have occured, of course, but they haven't taken a gender-based form until now.

False - war is a horrible thing that should avoided at almost all costs, and you might say that it is "wrong", but it's sometime neccessary

so far everyone is 100% agreed on this one

False - I don't know what the best solution is though

that's ok, splateaux, it seems all of us have racked our brains on this one and came up with the same blank

True. While I personally the thought of gay sex/love confusing and disgusting, I don't feel like my marriage is any less valid if someone chooses to give their marital bond the same title as mine. More power to ya.

great answer, splateaux. i wholly agree with the "if nobody gets hurt, go ahead" way of thinking

True.

again, the majority are with this one splateaux

ALMOST DONE NOW ! thankyou guys.

happy mig XX

25

mignuna

on Jul 31, 2004

I'm much less certain of where I stand on this than I used to be. I was a pretty solid "women's right to choose" advocate for a long time. But to the "It's my body to handle as I see fit" argument, It's not JUST your body. It's somebody else's body too, which just happens to be inside yours

as i mentioned before, as a woman who would like to adopt, the abortion issue has less clear boundaries for me too

False. There's a saying that "War is the last refuge of the incompetent". To which my reply is "Yes, because only the incompetent would wait that long to use force." Human nature being what it is, wars are inevitable. You're much better off picking when YOU are ready to fight rather than letting the other person decide when they're ready.

again we agree, citahellion

False. As currently constituted, prison (in the US, at least) is not a vehicle for rehabilitation, but for punishment

now that i didn't know. but i guess i should have

True with conditions. I support the separation of a legal union and marriage.A legal union is provided (and recognized) by the government, and is available to all (with the age restriction caveat previously noted).

yes, we are calling it "the suz caveat"

true. A strong home environment can overcome a weak outside environment.

a great way of putting it, too, citahellion. i agree

FALSE She didn't "create" this life, so to speak, so why does she have the right to destroy it? It's not a permenant "condition" as someone said. Just because she's carrying this human life gives her no right to murder it.

sarah, again, i applaud you in being able to voice your opinion. this has been the most difficult question so far, yet the answers and the calm have impacted on me no end

FALSE Hmm, I wonder if anyone will say true to this. As most of the above people have stated war is necessary at times when two parties can't come to an agreement. There's a time for peace, but also a time for war.

so far sarah, we are 100% "false" on this one. we have accepted a necessary evil, it seems

FALSE. gays should not have the right to marry... I also don't PERSONALLY agree with civil unions, but for the sake of law and order think that it's better than marriage.

sarah, as is my way i utterly respect your views, and i understand the motivation behind them as well

if parents were actually spending time with their children, showing them love, raising them right, and not getting divorced all the time

this would certainly be a huge step in the right direction, sarah, i agree. we can hope

These keep getting better and better. These are some key issues that you've hit on Mig. I'll try my best to articulate my opinion

i can believe you ever have to TRY, carlos.

... but thanks !

In my beliefs, every individual should have a right to choose what they want to do with their own life without the worry that some other individual who believes different will try to impose their beliefs on them. With that said I think women should have the right to choose what they want to do.

as everyone keeps saying, this issue is getting more and more complex. i can even see the odd mind changing above. i do agree that women should have the right to choose. but i guess i wish they didn't have to

World War II had to be fought but it didn't change the fact that many people where killed which makes it wrong.TRUE

the first true answer, carlos. i was waiting for one !. the cost in human life does make war wrong on a moral level, yet as you say, it is unfortunately occasionally necessary

If it's not working chances are it's not going to work

love this !

These individuals have a tendency to return to crime because it's pathological urges that compell them to do it. With some evaluation I'm sure we would be able to filter out some of those that can benefit from help. FALSE

true, and a good suggestion as to a first small course of action to see who can be rehabilitated

Unfortunately not all that fall in love can maintain a stable relationship but all those that want to get married should have the right to do so.TRUE

great answer, carlos

Boys with no paternal influences have the hardest time adjusting and it may impact them in a drastically negative way. TRUE

proven true and a very good point, carlos. certain years are vital in terms of the development of the young male, and a lack of a positive paternal figure can have lasting negative consequences

First off...I find it pretty intimidating to suggest I have any answers to these questions, but my two cents...sure you can have it....even though this isn't a pay day for me

thanks, suspeckted

Plain and simple, yes, it's a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, support the right to have an abortion, and their right to choose to speak out against abortion. That's what makes it a CHOICE

good definition

However, I would like to say that war is "wrong" in the moral sense if we are to judge humanity as a species. Once we break it down into A vs. B it gets a little bit more difficult to decide who is "holier than thou.

a similar point was made by psychx, suspeckted, and "morally wrong" yet "neceessary" is the general consenus

I'm pretty sure that the idea of serving prison time itself was never really meant to "rehabilitate" criminals, it was a "punishment." I find this question rather silly being a criminology/sociology major and knowing that there are infinite differences between offenders and also that very little has been shown to rehabilitate severe ciminal offenses

(i'm sorry it's such a silly question, suspeckted hehe. i hope you read the introduction where i said these were statements i culled from the weekly media ?. anyway, thanks for answering it).

And now to get on my soapbox - drug laws are oppressive and a BIG WASTE OF MONEY! D.A.R.E. programs have been proven ineffective for 20 years yet they're still in place. The tougher we get on drugs the lighter we get on other crime because there is no space for more ciminals in the prison system...when one goes in, one must come out.

i have to say i agree on the issue of "soft" drugs. i'd sooner have a violent criminal behind bars than some harmless stoner

Yes, now let's move on people really. Call it something else if you must, but I remember a little thing that used to be called separation of church and state. You don't have to like it, feel free to hate, but GET OVER IT!

we're trying. we are !

Uhhh....that would certainly be an incomplete explanation.

as i said, these were just media snippets. it is phrased in a very general way, i agree

I just wanted to let you know that I will be commenting next week. I'm up to ,y elbows in a project at work right now.

hi kayles !. i'm sorry you're so busy at work. make sure you don't wear yourself out. we miss you in here !. come back in a few days if you can

getting tired fingers mig XX

26

mignuna

on Jul 31, 2004

Oh dear, i dont want this to turn into another abortion/anti abortion thread, its plain to see we all feel pretty passionately about this

it's ok, sabrina, my lovely. we are all allowed to speak as freely as we like in friday five. that's why i like it so much. i feel honoured that so many people share their private thoughts with me, and as soon as i started friday five, i promised myself that i would never malign anybody for speaking their own truth, provided they did so in a reasonable and non-aggressive way.

amazingly enough, despite all the issues we have discussed, i am yet to have been insulted or offended by anyone, regardless of my personal views on the issue/s at hand. i'd say that's a credit to everyone who has ever commented.

steps down from her soapbox and hopes she hasnt pissed anyone off too terribly~

nah. well, not me anyway. anybody pissed off ? show of hands ?

THANKYOU. everyone that answered. as soon as i can massage some life back into my fingers, i'll answer it myself

grateful mig XX

27

notsohighlyevolved

on Jul 31, 2004

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right

True: in cases of rape, yes; in cases where it can be PROVED that the child's life would not be worth living; in cases where it can be PROVED that the birth would put the mothers life at risk. In all other cases, not including other valid reasons my myopic vision is not privy to, FALSE. I agree, in principle, with Sabrina on this one, but not in extent.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances

Seeing as these answers can be an outlet for idealism and that they are merely answers and not policies of national or global importance - TRUE. You can use self-defence as an out-clause, but if no country went to war to invade another this would be a moot point. But self-defence is a circumstance where war is right, there can be no moral judgment of self-preservation, you cannot expect the victims of genocide to turn the other cheek, or others to commit the sin of neutrality in the face of evil. But that is not the question - is war justifiable - yes. is it right - no. The murder of another human being, especially of those that have committed no personal evil against you or family is wrong, to kill those that must kill or be killed is as wrong as being killed in the act of preservation of home or life. War is an absolute evil. Death when there is no need for death is an absolute evil. War can SOMETIMES be justified, but it can NEVER be right.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals

Prison is the best place to prevent career criminals from committing crimes within the wider community. It is not the best place for rehabilitation. So, i would have to say FALSE. The education of criminals in criminality and dependence on institutions is hardly what i would call rehabilitation.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry

TRUE. Unequivocally. This needs no argument or justification through reason. Marriage is an arbitrary ritual that confirms and makes public love, as well as allowing the couple to be seen, in certain circumstances, as a single unit rather than two individuals. To legally protect bigotry and prejudice is abhorrent and regressive. It harms NOBODY to allow single sex marriage and union.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime

FALSE. I think it would be a mistake to see poor parenting as a cause rather than a symptom. It would obscure the influence of poverty, peer groups, undereducation (of both the parents and the child), the plight of third world children who have no choice but to become criminals, it being either a criminal career or death, etc.

Good questions Mig and it's nice to see everyone being elaborative, even though i think i might have driven this concept to its extreme, sorry about that

Marco XX

28

mignuna

on Jul 31, 2004

True: in cases of rape, yes; in cases where it can be PROVED that the child's life would not be worth living; in cases where it can be PROVED that the birth would put the mothers life at risk. In all other cases, not including other valid reasons my myopic vision is not privy to, FALSE. I agree, in principle, with Sabrina on this one, but not in extent.

marco, i can't believe we never discussed this !.. i had no clue what your views were on this. now i know. now i know !

is war justifiable - yes. is it right - no. The murder of another human being, especially of those that have committed no personal evil against you or family is wrong, to kill those that must kill or be killed is as wrong as being killed in the act of preservation of home or life. War is an absolute evil. Death when there is no need for death is an absolute evil. War can SOMETIMES be justified, but it can NEVER be right.

funnily enough, despite a mix of "true" and "false" answers on this one, nobody agreed with war, but we all found it a sad necessity

Prison is the best place to prevent career criminals from committing crimes within the wider community. It is not the best place for rehabilitation. So, i would have to say FALSE. The education of criminals in criminality and dependence on institutions is hardly what i would call rehabilitation.

this is a pretty neat summation of the answers so far, marco. (where were you when i was trying to write that mammoth comment ?

)

TRUE. Unequivocally

yep

FALSE. I think it would be a mistake to see poor parenting as a cause rather than a symptom. It would obscure the influence of poverty, peer groups, undereducation (of both the parents and the child), the plight of third world children who have no choice but to become criminals, it being either a criminal career or death, etc.

true, although we seem to have limited ourselves to "our" concept of poor parenting, your points are (as always) very valid (just more global than the issue seemed to have turned out).

thanks marco

croaky mig XXX

29

notsohighlyevolved

on Aug 01, 2004

but we all found it a sad necessity

I have a problem with that word - "necessity". In my mind "necessity" is a concept that is inextricably intangled with the laws of nature. The sun rising - that's a necessity, it will happen outside and byond our existential decisions. Animals need to feed and so will need to excercise cruelty, but cruelty is not born of their need to feed, this necessity, but our interpretation of their actions. War is an evil that contains no necessity, its cause is always a decision, and remember, self-defence is not a cause of war. War only ever has sufficient conditions, never necessary ones.

Marco XX

30

Cann1bal

on Aug 01, 2004

I am going to place my answers to the questions at hand, you dont agree with them, I seriously dont give a shit, I have my answers for my own reason as do we all

(besides Im not here enough anymore to actually retort so whatever)

1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
True. Marco stated it clearly and preceptively, and I have known both cases that he has stated. No elaboration on this at all.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
True. Shit happens we dont like it, war happens we dont like it, it wasnt right it aint fair yadda yadda blah blah fucking blah, you get the point.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
False. If they are career its looks like they arent going to make a career change now does it.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
True. Im not gonna say you cant marry your husband/ wife just cause I feel like it, and I dont expect you to do the same.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
True. This is an exept from Chris Rock's Rock This! book.
page44 "Spare the ass, spoil the child"

"People need to beat thier kids. But these days parents are against hitting thier children. Its the nineties and your not supposed to do that. In one way they're right: You shouldnt smack a kid in the head or the face.
But the ass was made for whupping. Gotta do it. Every kid need four key ass-whippings in life, and every parent has to do their best to hand them out. They are the Stealing, Lying, Cheating, and Disrespecting ass-whippings.
Every grown-up who doesnt know how to act missed the key ass-whippings. If you cant drill it into a kid's head, you drill it into his butt. Please whip your kids ass before the government whips it for him. I feel sorry every time I see a distrought parent on the news whose kid gets accused of doing something terrible. The parents say, ' But my kid would never do that.' Yes, he would. But he wouldnt have if you'd have whipped his ass."

Thomas