satanists are people too

the british royal navy registers its' first 'satanist'

Published on October 25, 2004 By mignuna In Current Events

According to BBC News, the British Armed forces has given permission for 24 year old Chris Cranmer to officially register as a ‘Satanist’, which will allow Mr. Cranmer, a Naval Technician, to perform 'satanic rituals' on board Naval vessels.

Mr. Cranmer says that he became a Satanist around nine years ago, after reading a copy of “The Satanic Bible” by Anton Szandor LaVey, who founded the Church Of Satan in San Francisco in 1966 (and remained its' high priest until his death in 1997).

Church of Satan followers live by the ‘Nine Satanic Statements’, which include "indulgence instead of abstinence", "vengeance instead of turning the other cheek" and "(committing) all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification".

Mr. Cranmer, who is from Edinburgh, is now lobbying the Ministry of Defence to make Satanism a registered religion in the armed forces, with a spokesman for the Royal Navy saying that “We are an equal opportunities employer and we don't stop anybody from having their own religious values."

Former Tory minister Ann Widdecombe said she was "utterly shocked" by the Royal Navy's decision, stating that "Satanism is wrong. Obviously the private beliefs of individuals anywhere, including the armed forces, are their own affair but I hope it doesn't spread".

She added that "The Royal Navy should not permit Satanist practices on board its ships. God himself gives free will, but I would like to think that if somebody applied to the Navy and said they were a Satanist today it would raise its eyebrows somewhat" .

*Quoted text from : Link

Comments (Page 1)

dharmagrl

on Oct 25, 2004

I have always thought that people make too much of a fuss over satanism. I think that, rather than it being about 'evil', it's more about self-gratification and indulgence. Where as Christianity is about self-denial in the name of the common good, satanism is more 'screw everyone else, I'm looking out for me'.

This dude shuld be allowed to practice his faith as he wishes...as long as he's not doing anything illegal or that compromises his postion as a member of her Maj's Navy, I don't see what the issue is...

Oh, and Ann Widdecombe is a....*sigh*...never mind. It wouldn't have been very nice, so I'll just shut up.

Myrrander

on Oct 25, 2004

*laugh*

Silly religions.

wuxiaomao

on Oct 25, 2004

so...is he going to be raping and pillaging and murdering on the Naval ship? They should let him! It's his religion!

notsohighlyevolved

on Oct 25, 2004

What I find interesting about satanists is that they hate the God that is adored by the "God" they worship.

Marco

citahellion

on Oct 25, 2004

I would think they should kick this guy out of the Navy for espousing beliefs that are contrary to the spirit of naval service.

If you view Satanism as a philosophy, then it is more properly called "egoistic hedonism", which is to say that making oneself happy is the proper goal of all conduct. With the "nine satanic principles" thrown in, you pretty much completely contradict the ideals of loyalty, service, obedience, discipline, etc. that any branch of the armed services requires.

If you view Satanism as a religious activity, then I would have to say it pretty obviously qualifies rather as a cult than a religion and is clearly not deserving of the status that they have accorded it.

notsohighlyevolved

on Oct 25, 2004

would think they should kick this guy out of the Navy for espousing beliefs that are contrary to the spirit of naval service.

I thought the spirit of naval service was blowing things up...alright...all in the name of defence and freedom, but blowing things up nonetheless or supporting things that blow other things up. Right?

My opinion of religion is similar to my opinion of the news - once enough people believe in it, it effectively becomes truth. If one person believes in it, i wouldn't want to be that person. The men in white have their spies. If some believe but not enough, then yes, it's a cult or at the very least a conspiracy theory.

Marco

EmperorofIceCream

on Oct 25, 2004

God is alive and well and selling used tyres in North Eastern Ohio.... and laughing his ass off.

island_gurl12

on Oct 25, 2004

Agree 100% with citahellion. How can you fight for something you totally hate??? And if it's only for the matter of blowing things up, then they become criminals. I think it's dangerous... Letting crazy dudes with the greatest military material in the world ...huh... are you sure about that???

SSG Geezer

on Oct 25, 2004

I just think it is pretty freakin funny, Since he believes in Satan he must believe in the Christian God too, so he's a confused Christian.

stevendedalus

on Oct 25, 2004

I don't see what the issue is...

He might aim a 16 inch naval gun at his captain.

stevendedalus

on Oct 25, 2004

Mr. Cranmer, who is from Edinburgh, is now lobbying the Ministry of Defence to make Satanism a registered religion in the armed forces, with a spokesman for the Royal Navy saying that “We are an equal opportunities employer and we don't stop anybody from having their own religious values."

Saturday Night Live?

completely contradict the ideals of loyalty, service, obedience, discipline, etc. that any branch of the armed services requires.

Great point.

citahellion

on Oct 26, 2004

Since he believes in Satan he must believe in the Christian God too, so he's a confused Christian

I wouldn't necessarily say he's confused. The true satanist, as you point out, believes in the existence of God, but specifically rejects the message of salvation/redemption, since the cost (abstinence, denial, etc.) is too high in the here and now, while the purported payoff is lurking down the road somewhere, and presumably some other form of payoff can be achieved by joining the upper echelons of the denizens of the damned. Nothing confused about it, just a different valuation of the options.

The lip-service satanist, on the other hand, espouses the ideals of egoistic hedonism without bothering himself as to what may happen in the great hereafter.

thatoneguyinslc

on Oct 26, 2004

What i find amusing is that the US Military has recognized satanism as a religion for years. I would love to meet that chaplain!

Rightwinger

on Oct 26, 2004

If he is a true satanist, it would then seem to me that he also would disavow all of the Ten Commandments as set down by God Himself. These are pretty much the basis for all morality, and would include, of course, the law against murder and theft.
I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck on a ship with a jerkoff who has no moral compunction against murder or thievery.

Then again, give it time and he'll most likely be tossed overboard by some of his more zealous shipmates, anyhow. Problem solved.

mignuna

on Oct 26, 2004

These are pretty much the basis for all morality, and would include, of course, the law against murder and theft. I'm not sure I'd want to be stuck on a ship with a jerkoff who has no moral compunction against murder or thievery

excellent points, rightwinger. and nice to 'meet' you. a major discussion point here has been the way this would negatively influence onboard operations to a point were safety could be compromised. i agree with you fullly, thankyou for adding this.

What i find amusing is that the US Military has recognized satanism as a religion for years. I would love to meet that chaplain!

silky, now THAT i did not know !. thankyou for adding that. do you know if many are practising ?

Great point

indeed, stevendedalus, i coudn't agree more. there's futher reference to this in this enormous comment. (if you can bear to keep reading it !)

He might aim a 16 inch naval gun at his captain.

yuck, stevendedalus ! hehe. but seriously, i have been trying to 'follow' this news to see exactly what type of 'rituals' this fellow is allowed to perform, and if they fit within the law. if they don't, it's a pretty useless verdict for him anway !.

I just think it is pretty freakin funny, Since he believes in Satan he must believe in the Christian God too, so he's a confused Christian.

ssg geezer, thankyou for the laugh ! . i think he's just a confused fellow, full stop !

How can you fight for something you totally hate???

a great point, island_gurl12, in that this may also have a negative outcome for the team members working with this man.

God is alive and well and selling used tyres in North Eastern Ohio.... and laughing his ass off

dang ! and here i was thinking He was k.d. lang ...

If some believe but not enough, then yes, it's a cult or at the very least a conspiracy theory.

marco and citahellion, i read your comments leading up to this, and i must say i'm pleased to have an exchange to read from two of my very favourite minds. the point of this article being that the navy has 'officially' registered satanism as a 'religion' bears relevance to this, too, as citahellion mentioned. this may be instrumental in other 'official' recognitions of other 'religions'. and as marco mentioned, there can be a 'one man religion' - what's to stop THAT guy proclaiming he has 'rights' under 'his' 'religion'. sorry about all the ' (hehe).

With the "nine satanic principles" thrown in, you pretty much completely contradict the ideals of loyalty, service, obedience, discipline, etc. that any branch of the armed services requires

an interesting point, citahellion, in that these 'principles' may compromise the safety of other workers, or may expose them to unsavoury practices. this is such a grey area, i was hoping for input such as this.

What I find interesting about satanists is that they hate the God that is adored by the "God" they worship.

marco, i can always rely on you for logic. bravo for making me smile, even at this stuff !

so...is he going to be raping and pillaging and murdering on the Naval ship? They should let him! It's his religion

as dharma said, wuxiaomao, as long as he's not breaking the law ... but we don't know that part yet.

*laugh*

Silly religions.

so well said, myrrander !

satanism is more 'screw everyone else, I'm looking out for me'. This dude shuld be allowed to practice his faith as he wishes...as long as he's not doing anything illegal

i like your summation of satanism, dharma. it's very neat and real. i wish i'd thought of it. from what i can gather, there may be some legal areas regarding what 'rituals' he intends to perform, but that stuff has yet to come to light. i'm trying to follow it, so i'll pass that on if i can find out.

mig XXX

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